Could this school really close?

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Could this school really close?

Postby rnmom9496 on Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:10 am

I know many teachers and they work more than 5 hours a day (at least the ones I know). Tests and essays get taken home for grading. Lesson plans get done on the weekends. I know a C++ computer teacher(high school level) who works on programs and grades them when he's not in school. As a matter of fact I personally called on of my child's teachers last week at 5:15pm expecting to leave a vm and she answered the phone. An elementary school teacher (yes in this town)has actually stated to parents that teaching involves way more than the school days, and school hours. They also have to deal with the ever changing cirriculum. I saw the social studies cirriculum change 3 years in a row. Not to mention the 9 month school year has developed into MCAS prep. They also have to maintain their education, with CEU's which cannot be done during class hours.

Considering they bear the majority of the responsibility for educating our future, yes Rabib I think they're underpaid.
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Could this school really close?

Postby mad mom on Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:54 pm

"Considering they bear the majority of the responsibility for educating our future, yes Rabib I think they're underpaid."


I totally agree!!!
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Postby drvmusic on Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rabib:
Teachers grossly underpaid? Hmmm, let's see... work 9 months a year, work 5 hours a day, and only need 180 days worked? Get every holiday off, plus snow days. Get health coverage, education payments, and a pension.
How does this compare to the general working population?
I never remember teachers leaving the school dept. for the "dreaded private sector", where performance is measured.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Are you SERIOUS?!? Man, talk to a teacher before making such an uninformed accusation of an entire profession.

Do you think they grade tests, read and correct essays, prepare exams, WHILE teaching class?

Do you seriously think they spend no time outside of the classroom on their job? I know many teachers who have NO free time.

It doesn't end for them when the final bell rings.

Teachers deserve much more respect than they get!
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Could this school really close?

Postby bigdaddy on Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:10 pm

Lets not forget the amount of teachers who have to spend their own money. I have subsidized classrooms each and every year.
The small amount of budgeted money would not even come close to keeping the room up to speed for the year.

What other business has an unwritten rule about spending your own money on your classroom.

Many teachers are in their classroom weeks before school starts to prepare for the next school year.

I am not saying there are not some great perks to the job of educator, there are far more factors that are rarely brought to light.

I rate the job as decent salary and benefits, for a somewhat demanding job.

walk a mile in a teachers shoes someday, you might be surprised at what you see.
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Could this school really close?

Postby Pats Fan on Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:37 am

I agree with you, Big Daddy. I had no clue what teachers do until I worked in the system.

IS THE TRAHAN CLOSING OR WHAT???
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Postby my2cents on Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rabib:
Teachers grossly underpaid? Hmmm, let's see... work 9 months a year, work 5 hours a day, and only need 180 days worked? Get every holiday off, plus snow days. Get health coverage, education payments, and a pension.
How does this compare to the general working population?
I never remember teachers leaving the school dept. for the "dreaded private sector", where performance is measured.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with Rabib here. Those who know the system understand that teachers are given time in school to complete tasks such as grading…if they choose not to use this time and instead take things home, that’s their own decision. For example, if you work at the Wynn, you have 7 blocks of classes; 4 blocks of teaching, one block of an SSR-type class, one block for common planning and one block OFF – plus a 25 minute lunch break.

How many people in the private sector get blocks of time off DURING their work day? Do you? I know a teacher who does all his correcting DURING school time (only a 6-1/2 hour day here from bell to bell) and takes NOTHING home with him. He doesn’t even use his lunch time; he uses his “offâ€￾ block – about 50 minutes 5x per week (do the math, they are actually “teachingâ€￾ LESS than 5 hours/day). How many of you have that option? He also uses volunteer parents to do photo copying (many teachers do…)

So, is Rabib fairly accurate in this assessment – you bet! You can say they work hard – and they do – but if you don’t know the system, please don’t make them look like Egyptian slaves here! If you average out the time – 180 days – to their salary, they do alright. And because of their contract, they cannot be made to work late, etc., so after their 6-1/2 hour day, they are free to leave if they so choose. How many others can say this about their jobs?? Even if they worked their school hours and brought home 1 to 1-1/2 hours of work each night – that’s STILL ONLY 40 HOURS PER WEEK! How many other careers offer less than a 40 hour work week??


Many teachers take home work unnecessarily. If they stayed in the school building for 8 hours like the rest of the work force, I’ll bet they’d get everything done and then some. Most of the teachers I know are out of there when the bell rings – or 10 minutes later (to allow for the buses to exit). Of course there will always be meetings or classes that they need to attend from time to time – but what occupation doesn’t have these requirements??

I ran into a teacher-to-be over the summer and asked why she chose this field and her answer was “I want summers off!â€￾ This is what it’s coming down to. She explained that she couldn’t think of another occupation with so much time off – that was her motivation. I don’t know about you, but that scares the bejesus out of me…
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Postby rachan on Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:14 pm

My guess is that every occupation has people who chose it because of perks, logistics, etc. I do not think that the teaching profession has cornered the market on that. Indeed, teachers do have summers off. And they do not work an eight hour day officially. I know that in the town's elementary schools, teachers are required to be there 30 minutes before the start of school and 15 minutes after the close of school. They get a 25 minute lunch, and a 25 minute prep after that. Otherwise their prep periods are when the students go to gym (30 minutes once a week), music (30 minutes once a week), art (1 hour every other week), library (one hour once a week) and health (30 minutes once a week). Now, factor in the time to deliver the kids, go to the bathroom, pick up mail from mailbox, call one parent, and maybe make one set of copies if you can find a working copy machine, and your prep time is over. There is not a lot of time left for prep. MOST teachers drag a suitcase-ful of work home because it is necessary, not because they are filing their nails during their prep periods. Most jobs I have had in 20-odd years allow me access to the phone and bathroom whenever I want/need to use them. Not so in teaching! you can't just take a 5 minute break to take a walk or call to schedule a doctor's appt. I am not suggesting that teachers have a terrible job. Most teachers love what they do. But I am tired of hearing people suggest that teachers have got it made in the shade because their work day/work year are shorter than private sector workers. Additionally, most jobs I've held required me to report to one or two management higher-ups. Again, not so in teaching. (Many of the)Twenty-five sets of parents/guardians believe the teachers are there for their child alone. If they don't like the teacher, the grade, the whatever...they insist on complaining, badmouthing, etc. the teacher. Of course there are legitimate reasons to be concerned (I am a parent and of course want the best for my child, too). And so many parents believe that their children are perfect and can't/won't believe that their children would talk out of turn, cheat, wise-off, bully, etc. Children often act very differently at home from how they act at school. The teaching profession continues to require more and more of teachers each year. There are standardized test, social/emotional issues to deal with, and more and more to cram into the school day. It ain't easy. There is a lot of stress involved with being a teacher. I suggest you take a walk in a teacher's moccasins before you throw so many stones. There are good teachers and bad teachers, as there are good doctors and bad doctors. But I think you'll find more teachers with pure motives than without. I am guessing that there are more than a few lawyers out there who became lawyers becasue it pays well. Same can be said of many professions.
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Postby Babytoe on Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:35 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabib:
[B]Teachers grossly underpaid? Hmmm, let's see...

UNDERPAID?....YES!.....GROSSLY?.....I WON'T COMMENT....EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE... BUT IN THE ALMOST 30 YEARS MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN TEACHING, HE HAS ALWAYS HAD TO HAVE A SUMMER JOB. I THINK HE'D LIKE A TRUE VACATION ONCE IN A WHILE. HE DEFINITELY DID NOT GO INTO THE PROFESSION FOR THE TIME OFF.

work 9 months a year, work 5 hours a day, and only need 180 days worked? Get every holiday off, plus snow days. How does this compare to the general working population?

DID YOU EVER CALCULATE HOW MUCH THOSE IN THE "PRIVATE SECTOR" WORK? IT REALLY ISN'T THAT MUCH MORE...52 WEEKS TIMES 5 DAYS WEEKLY = 260 DAYS A YEAR - THOSE 10 MAJOR HOLIDAYS THAT JUST ABOUT EVERYONE GETS OFF = 250 DAYS A YEAR - 4 WEEKS VACATION (20 DAYS) = 230 DAYS A YEAR - 3 WEEKS SICK TIME (15 DAYS) = 215 DAYS A YEAR - 182 DAYS TEACHERS WORK = 33 DAYS MORE. OKAY I GRANT YOU THAT'S A MONTH, BUT! , PROPORTIONALLY A TEACHER IS NOT MAKING 11/12 OF A PRIVATE SECTOR SALARY AND I SPEAK FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

Get health coverage, education payments, and a pension.

HEALTH COVERAGE, NOT THE BEST AND THE TEACHERS (AS WELL AS OTHER TOWN EMPLOYEES) ARE PAYING MORE THAN THEIR FAIR SHARE.
EDUCATION PAYMENTS - THE ONLY EDUCATION PAYMENTS ARE THE ONES THE TEACHERS ARE MAKING THEMSELVES - THERE'S NO TUITION REIMBURSEMENT HERE - ALTHOUGH SOME NEWER TEACHERS MIGHT BE ELIGIBLE FOR LOAN FORGIVENESS PROGRAMS.
PENSIONS? THAT'S NOT A PECULIARITY TO THE TEACHING PROFESSION. I WORK IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND EVERY EMPLOYER I HAVE EVER HAD HAS OFFERED A PENSION PLAN

I never remember teachers leaving the school dept. for the "dreaded private sector", where performance is measured.

ACTUALLY, THANKS TO PROPOSITION 2 1/2 AND SUBSEQUENT LAYOFFS, MY HUSBAND HAS DONE JUST THAT (LEAVE FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR) NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE.
PERFORMANCE IS MEASURED IN THE SCHOOLS AS WELL - TRUE TENURE IS A THING OF THE PAST - AND IF YOU DON'T DO YOUR JOB, YOU CAN RUN THE RISK OF BEING TERMINATED

previous posters in support of the teaching profession are far closer to being on the right track than some of the whiny babies in here. for teachers get neither the money nor the respect they deserve
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Postby JD161616 on Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:22 am

This is in response to Babytoe, in no way am I shitting on teachers, for they do far more than I will. However, He, or she states
"DID YOU EVER CALCULATE HOW MUCH THOSE IN THE "PRIVATE SECTOR" WORK? IT REALLY ISN'T THAT MUCH MORE"

This by far is way off base. I work in the private sector and if I am lucky, I may work 60 hours a week. sometimes 80 to 100.
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Postby JD161616 on Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scoobie-Snack:
This is in response to Babytoe, in no way am I shitting on teachers, for they do far more than I will. However, He, or she states
"DID YOU EVER CALCULATE HOW MUCH THOSE IN THE "PRIVATE SECTOR" WORK? IT REALLY ISN'T THAT MUCH MORE"

This by far is way off base. I work in the private sector and if I am lucky, I may work 60 hours a week. sometimes 80 to 100.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


also, 4 weeks vacation, where can I get me some of that and on top of that , when you have deadlines, try taking some vacation
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Could this school really close?

Postby JD161616 on Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:25 am

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Postby Babytoe on Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:45 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scoobie-Snack:

also, 4 weeks vacation, where can I get me some of that and on top of that , when you have deadlines, try taking some vacation
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that would be in the "ideal" sense and was in no way meant to breach reality. if you are working 50-60 hours a week, you are either in a lousy job, have a recalcitrant manager, or are just dedicated and work way too hard and much....hey! just like a teacher!....the fact of the matter is that i am sick and tired of people who bash teachers and their "lenient" schedule. it is NOT lenient, it is NOT easy, and it does NOT pay well. you don't have to look much farther than hospitals and health services management to see sick, vacation, and holiday time bundled into benefit time where you are REQUIRED to be out of the office 5-6 weeks a year, therefore if you do not get sick, and work some holidays, you might squeeze out a month and a half of vacation. the true nature of the beast, however, in a salaried position is that there are plenty of demanding projects and 12 hour days, missed dinners, untaken vacations and days worked while sick. everyone's reality is personal
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Postby my2cents on Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:44 am

Originally posted by Babytoe:


DID YOU EVER CALCULATE HOW MUCH THOSE IN THE "PRIVATE SECTOR" WORK? IT REALLY ISN'T THAT MUCH MORE...52 WEEKS TIMES 5 DAYS WEEKLY = 260 DAYS A YEAR - THOSE 10 MAJOR HOLIDAYS THAT JUST ABOUT EVERYONE GETS OFF = 250 DAYS A YEAR - 4 WEEKS VACATION (20 DAYS) = 230 DAYS A YEAR - 3 WEEKS SICK TIME (15 DAYS) = 215 DAYS A YEAR - 182 DAYS TEACHERS WORK = 33 DAYS MORE. OKAY I GRANT YOU THAT'S A MONTH, BUT! , PROPORTIONALLY A TEACHER IS NOT MAKING 11/12 OF A PRIVATE SECTOR SALARY AND I SPEAK FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

You seem to have left out something in your post...do teachers get NO sick/personal time? Also, when you refer to the private sector work day, you are not recognizing the fact that they are EIGHT hours long...doesn't that add up to DAYS over time??

Here's a reality check: I work "mothers hours" while my kids are at school (same hours as teachers...), which equals PART TIME with NO benefits. My husband gets SIX paid holidays, TWO weeks vacation and ZERO sick days and he is on-call!! Where is this job you are describing?? He will be there with his resume first thing Tuesday morning!


HEALTH COVERAGE, NOT THE BEST AND THE TEACHERS (AS WELL AS OTHER TOWN EMPLOYEES) ARE PAYING MORE THAN THEIR FAIR SHARE. We have an HMO and pay $97/week...what is your husband paying???

THERE'S NO TUITION REIMBURSEMENT HERE -
NONE here either...

I WORK IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND EVERY EMPLOYER I HAVE EVER HAD HAS OFFERED A PENSION PLAN
Only jobs I have had that offered this are those in which you don't pay social security.



previous posters in support of the teaching profession are far closer to being on the right track than some of the whiny babies in here. for teachers get neither the money nor the respect they deserve

No whining...just think the public has a right to know that teachers have come a long way since when we were in school. The contract they now have is very favorable - and people have a right to know this. For some reason the fact that teachers are provided time during school hours to do paperwork is supposed to be kept quiet. (Look at the high school - 84 minute block off plus lunch each day; that's nothing to sneeze at.) They also should know that a lot of the same material may be used year after year unless the curriculum changes.

Please do not turn this around as though we are teacher-bashing; that's simply not true. I think we should be allowed to have the opinion that teachers do NOT have it so terribly bad these days - and I personally know some teachers who would tell you the same.
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Postby Babytoe on Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:04 am

I think we should be allowed to have the opinion that teachers do NOT have it so terribly bad these days - and I personally know some teachers who would tell you the same.[/B][/QUOTE]

you really haven't been following the thread, because what i was originally responding to was exactly the "teacher-bashing" in it. yes they have come far - my husband will assert that (especially as his first job paid $13000 a year), but NO, i am also entitled to MY opinion that it is not ideal and never will be - not as long as there are whiny babies who cling to the short work days and long summer vacations as an excuse for saying they have it easy. i accomplished my goal and the post's teacher-bashing readers got their reality check, because now they don't agree with my assessment of the working world's private sector either

and just to comment on some of the previous poster's laments.....my department does currently have 3 openings, i DO pay into social security, AND the firm DOES offer a pension plan. on top of that, i have 4 weeks of vacation a year, 3 weeks of sick time (though they do get mad if you take more than 4 days), and i am lower level management
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Postby worried on Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:57 am

I've been at my company for 7 years and receive FTO (flex time off) for sick & vacation time. I only accumulate 1.25 days per month which averages out to 15 days per year. I can use that time for either sick time or vacation time. I'd have to say that I believe that's pretty average. 3 weeks of sick time is NOT the norm.
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