Could this school really close?

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Could this school really close?

Postby callahanjen on Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:59 pm

Even if a private sector company did give 3 weeks of sick time it most certainly wouldn't be looked upon favorably if you used it all. That's like calling out sick 3 times a month.
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Could this school really close?

Postby tinkerbell on Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:01 pm

3 weeks of sick time is NOT the norm.[/B][/QUOTE]


then i guess that will give you more to complain about since its what teachers get...in any case, the national average for company provided sick time is actually 10.7 days a year...
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Postby tinkerbell on Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by callahanjen:
Even if a private sector company did give 3 weeks of sick time it most certainly wouldn't be looked upon favorably if you used it all. That's like calling out sick 3 times a month.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

except that 3 times a month would be 36 days of sick time and nobody gets that
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Could this school really close?

Postby callahanjen on Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:52 pm

Sorry little math error there and to think I used to be an accountant, scary :-)
Anyhow I guess my point was that most companies don't like you to use all your sick time.

Bottom line, it would really stink if the Trahan closed.
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Postby drvmusic on Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by my2cents:
Here's a reality check: I work "mothers hours" while my kids are at school (same hours as teachers...), which equals PART TIME with NO benefits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell me, when you leave work, do you have to bring it home? Do you sit with your work on the table while you eat dinner? Are you required to get certifications and keep up with the topics you deal with (many times requiring classes that cost a lot of money) on your own time at your own expense?

Do you spend summers planning and researching, only to get beasted at by "little Johnnie's" parents because he's getting bad grades?

If you need a bathroom break, can you take one? Do you have 25 people to entertain and educate at your job? How many fights per day do you break up?

It is absolutely disgusting the way people here are talking about teachers. Like a prior post said, walk a day in their shoes and then come back whining about how good they have it.

I cannot recall many co-worker's names, or the names of 80% of the people I went through public school with.

I remember the name of every teacher I've ever had.

The value of their work is in what they provide to your children.

Stop complaining, unless your child is not being educated. Thank God we have teachers. Without them where would we be?
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Postby my2cents on Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babytoe:you really haven't been following the thread, because what i was originally responding to was exactly the "teacher-bashing" in it
.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I just can't find anywhere in the posts where anyone said teachers "have it easy" or are in the "ideal position". All that I responded to were facts that were written by another poster that for some reason make people (not teachers) get all defensive. Do they have a nice schedule? Yes. Why does that have negative connotations? Most people in the private sector are working 40 office hours and bringing home work on top of it.

Do teachers get summers off? Yes. Again, don't know why people jump on the defense...nobody is saying this is a "bad" thing - only those who respond defensively.

The original post stated that teachers have pensions, insurance, etc. - and they do. What are people defending?? I am totally lost here. I think teaching is a wonderful profession - my mother was a teacher. I have NEVER in any post said otherwise. I'm confused as to where the teacher-bashing was??

I would suggest that anyone who hasn't done so - go visit a classroom. It is not the hell you would think by the posts here. I have spent much time in classrooms - believe me, if a teacher needs to use the facilities he need only open the ajoining classroom door and ask the teacher next door for a few minutes' coverage - they do it all the time!

Now, we don't have to agree about salary and such...I believe when you break it down - 180 six(+) hour days (even at eight hours) for a full years' pay = not a bad deal...but again, I don't see any "bashing" on this board. (If it were so terrible there would be a huge turnover, which is not the case.)

So, why can't teachers have a nice benefit package and nice schedule AND be hard-working and effective? Because NOWHERE does it say otherwise. I think one thing was typed and another was read...


[img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]
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Postby my2cents on Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:05 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TownieMan:
Tell me, when you leave work, do you have to bring it home? Yes
Do you sit with your work on the table while you eat dinner? Are you required to get certifications and keep up with the topics you deal with (many times requiring classes that cost a lot of money) on your own time at your own expense? I think many professions require such things. I have had to be licenced at my own expense, yes. Go to school at my own expense, yes. No big deal - I knew it was required when I chose the occupation. By the way - re-certification is not an every year thing in this case.

Do you spend summers planning and researching, only to get beasted at by "little Johnnie's" parents because he's getting bad grades? No, I work all summer long.

If you need a bathroom break, can you take one? Not at the drop of a hat...

Do you have 25 people to entertain and educate at your job? My kids are not in school to be "entertained"...how awful that you think that's what the teacher's function is...

It is absolutely disgusting the way people here are talking about teachers. Where?? Quote??

Like a prior post said, walk a day in their shoes and then come back whining about how good they have it. Who is whining here? Because someone points out that they think teachers have a nice benefits package and are fairly compensated they are whining? Wow, who are you attacking and why? If someone is not of the same opinion as you they are "whining"? I guess you were never taught a little thing called *tolerance* - it's o.k. to be different!


I remember the name of every teacher I've ever had. How is that related to a teacher's benefits package - which is what we were talking about?? What does *any* of this have to do with teachers' benefits??


Stop complaining, unless your child is not being educated. Who is complaining? If someone thinks teachers have nice benefits, they are "complaining"?
[img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]
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Could this school really close?

Postby tinkerbell on Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:38 pm

there were a lot of good points made in these posts. however, many people who have seen your posts, my2cents and rabib, could easily construe them as insultingly condescending and teacher bashing without being hypersensitive.

to perhaps put an end note to this discussion i would hope that the space issues that tewksbury continues to endure would preclude trahan from closing. i have 4 children who all received a wonderful education there, and had many "repeat" and enduring relationships with its teachers, administration, and staff
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Postby Harry on Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:28 am

Originally posted by Tinkerbell:

"then i guess that will give you more to complain about since its what teachers get...in any case, the national average for company provided sick time is actually 10.7 days a year... "

Tinkerbell, quick question. Do you know if that stated average is factored for all US workers public and private or just the private sector? 10.7 seems high.

Thanks.
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Postby drvmusic on Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by my2cents:
...how awful that you think that's what the teacher's function is...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't (for crying out loud).

Look, the point I was making is that teachers are expected to do much more than teach these days. In this age of instant gratification and tv that shoots multiple images per SECOND at kids, teachers have to keep them entertained because there are such short attention spans these days.

THAT was my point. I'm not saying that it is the teachers' FUNCTION, it's just the sad reality they face.

It's sad that you misinterpreted my comment.
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Could this school really close?

Postby drvmusic on Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:27 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by my2cents:
(TM) I remember the name of every teacher I've ever had. How is that related to a teacher's benefits package - which is what we were talking about?? What does *any* of this have to do with teachers' benefits??

It is related to their VALUE to our society. The influence they have will stay with a child long after they have left the classroom.

We give Manny Ramirez $20 mil a year to hit a ball, yet teachers get nowhere NEAR the value of the job they do.
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Postby marine0311 on Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:05 pm

Performance pay that's interesting. So do we pay a special needs teacher less because by definition they teach kids that can't reach certain educational criteria? What about advanced placement teachers? Extra because they have the best and the brightest? In the private sector, bosses can fire underperforming employees. In the public sector can a teacher fire their students? Well if that were the case then you wouldn't have underperforming students would you? Just like the private sector. A teacher, however is not a boss, and they have a lot more variables to deal with. Obviuosly they cannot "fire" students, but they depend on their performance when they are evaluated by critics. Standards are higher now, and to be blunt, a lot of kids can't cut it. They don't read like we used to, they have way too many other distractions-the internet, video games,vcr's, dvd's, etc...To me it's like blaming the crime rate on police officers. More crime-must be the cops not doing their job, that's it. Just blame everyone else because everyone knows it all starts in the home, and believe me I've heard it all. It's so disgusting what comes out of parents mouths these days. Kids have this sense of entitlement as if the world owes them something. Well guess what? It doesn't. It's called Social Darwinism-either you have it or you don't, its that simple. And if you don't have it, you had better find it. Surival of the fittest. High drop out rates? Good in my opinion. Getting rid of all those non hackers? Not a bad idea. Why pass underachievers? We don't take underachievers in the real world do we? All we're doing is setting these kids up for failure because they're still clinging to mom's apron. Not everyone's going to make it folks, that's the way it is and that's the way it's always been. Have a bad teacher? Well what about a bad boss? Quit you're crying and for God's sake insert a little toughness and intestinal fortitude in your children's bodies like it used to be instead of complaining all the time, before we raise a nation of snivieling whiners.
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Could this school really close?

Postby Harry on Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:28 am

Well, from a business point of view what Manny Ramirez earns has no bearing on what anyone else earns. The Red Sox are a private entity and Manny’s salary is paid by a private corporation from monies earned from ticket sales, TV rights, concessions, and the like. If fans stop going to games, then Manny’s salary, and others like him, will decrease in direct relationship to club revenue.

The biggest problem with the salary and benefit structure regarding public sector workers is that it’s not tied directly to the bottom line like a private corporation. My salary is based on my performance and the financial performance of my company. Sure I feel that I’m worth more. Sure I feel that I perform a valuable service. However in the private sector none of us can escape the bottom line of the company’s tax accountants and our salaries are adjusted accordingly.

As salary, benefit, heath care, and retirement packages of public workers continued to grow, well beyond the revenue these programs were taking in, some fiscal belt tightening should have taken place. Well it didn’t, nor is there any appetite among politicians to rein these programs in.

It has nothing to do with liking or not liking public workers, it’s a bottom line financial issue.

Here is an editorial from today’s Lowell Sun.

Money's not the answer

The Lowell Sun
Lowell Sun

If state education officials are really serious about improving student achievement on MCAS tests, they should accept a simple challenge: Find a solution that doesn't cost taxpayers more money.

From the Berkshires to Billerica to Lowell, school superintendents and school boards know of only one solution to any of the classroom problems leading to poor academic performance: we need more money.

It's as if only new funding can solve the "old" problem of academic failure.

If money were the sole answer, Massachusetts would be producing more geniuses than India, based on the billions of extra dollars pumped into public school systems since 1993 when the Education Reform Act was enacted.

In no other private industry in America is this costly single-mindedness of solution allowed to persist. And make no mistake, public education in America is big business. We see it in the heavy lobbying conducted by teachers' unions on both Beacon Hill and Capitol Hill, and the campaign contributions they dole out to "favorite" politicians at all levels of government. They do it to protect their own interests, which usually conflicts with reform measures and educational innovation.

Superintendents and school boards don't help matters either. They jump in bed with the unions as "advocates" for education. With a familiar war cry -- we're doing it for the kids -- they raise salaries and increase benefits while reducing teachers' classroom work time and accountability measures.

Is it any wonder that Lowell and other communities are now working on a proposal to extend the school day to facilitate learning?

This is a classic example of "what goes around, comes around." Several years ago, the Lowell school board negotiated a reduction in the time a teacher spends in the daily classroom. It went from seven hours to less than six. Since 1997, teachers' pay has skyrocketed 41 percent, yet teachers teach 15 percent less per day -- and state and local officials are wondering why kids aren't learning fast enough.

The last laugh, of course, will be on taxpayers. Eventually, Lowell and other cities and towns will adopt a longer school day. The proposal will be touted as a major initiative and educational solution, when in reality it is just another shot-in-the-dark trend espoused by experts who have no clue whether it will work.

The kicker? Taxpayers will pick up the tab, paying to regain the time lost to teachers in previous contract negotiations.

Yes, it's good the state Department of Education wants to "attack" lagging MCAS scores. But this time we hope they really mean it.

Underperforming schools are underperforming not for a lack of money, but because there is a lack of boldness and creativity to transform a traditional environment into one that revolves around students' needs. Right now, teachers come first. More than 80 percent of most school budgets goes toward paying salaries and benefits. Why not turn that equation around a bit, and set a budget that prioritizes computers, textbooks and resource materials ahead of union demands?

Superintendents are reluctant to rock the boat. They go along to get along, and it's seen in their management style. Few have ever trumpeted a successful program based on efficient change. It's a reason they struggle when times are tough, earning a CEO's salary despite lacking financial skills to make do with what they've got.

If state officials want to turn things around, they've got to break the culture of underperformance in Massachusetts by putting less dependence on money and placing more accountability on leaders to effect innovative ways to inspire better student performance.

TOMORROW: Some things that can be done.
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Could this school really close?

Postby tjlmom2005 on Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:50 am

If state officials want to turn things around, they've got to break the culture of underperformance in Massachusetts by putting less dependence on money and placing more accountability on leaders to effect innovative ways to inspire better student performance.


AMEN!
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Could this school really close?

Postby rnmom9496 on Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:12 am

Back in the old days marine, kids that didn't know the work weren't quietly promoted, which only worsens feelings of helplessness, stupidity and increases feelings of why bother and giving up(=dropout). Kids that really shouldn't be promoted are being pushed forward because towns(not just Tewksbury)can't afford to keep these kids back. THAT'S SAD!! Are you saying that parents need to tell their children "your stupid" go drive a garbage truck(no offense meant)? Or 'just drop out you'll never pass the MCAS'? If telling a child 'your stupid' is your idea of intestinal fortitude, I think your nuts. Schools(again,not only Tewksbury) need to keep back the kids that are unable or aren't doing grade level work, or that miss too many days of school to possibly keep up. This country is already full of "snivieling whiners' where have you been for the last 5-10 years? Ever hear of the Melendez boys?? Tonya Harding?? Wake up, man it's all around you. Our schools need help....fast.
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