Changed Bus Stops???

Discussions about the town school transportation system.

Changed Bus Stops???

Postby atlantis on Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:38 pm

Seat belts on school buses is a long standing debate. The main issue is cost-lap belts are not acceptable for small children, as they can cause serious injury, and it would be very expensive to outfit every bus with harness type belts. Not saying it is right or wrong-but this is the issue in a nutshell.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby sdeackoff on Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:17 pm

atlantis,

I have been cruising the internet looking at the research, and I agree with your nutshell synopsis.

Using a "lap belt only" actually increases injuries. The only effective combination is a "lap/shoulder belt combination".

I have read of upwards to $1100 per seat for the lap/shoulder belts, and a reduction of seating capacity from 77 to 60 students. The reduction in seating capacity could necessitate more buses and more drivers.

And it seems that the lap/shoulder belt combination would only slightly increase the safety of the children.

In fact, I would presume that most kids (like my own child attempts) would put the shoulder strap behind them and in effect make it a lap belt only. This would actually increase their chances of injury in a school bus.

As it exists, school buses are 70 times safer than other modes of transporting children, i.e. walking, biking, and cars.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby KAV on Tue Sep 17, 2002 12:29 am

Although I know having belts in busses is a futile argument, I'll continue it.

Yes, I think the driver could take a few minutes before leaving the elementary schools to make sure they buckled. The older kids are able to buckle themselves and if they don't and they get hurt it's their own fault. It should be written in the policy that all these kids have to sign. Retractable seat belts would not be a weapon any more than the backpacks, lunch boxes, sports equipment and even your boots, etc. could be used as a weapon, so don't even go there. As for getting out in an emergency, they can undo their belts themselves - my child has been doing it since he was 2 1/2 Yes, the driver may have to help a couple, but other kids would help their friends as well.

Who said that lone 5 year old is the only one who fell out of her seat? She is the only one with a parent who discussed it on this forum. Maybe the only kid that was scared enough when it happened to complain to her mother...who knows, but you can't assume she was the only one who fell nor that she fell because she wasn't sitting right. I've seen video on TV that showed kids who sat near the back of the bus being thrown up and hitting the roof of a bus from hitting a bump in the road. The one who hit the roof was not hurt - luckily - but a seat belt would have kept him in his seat.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby kakd on Tue Sep 17, 2002 8:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
None of the other children in that bus fell out of their seats - they were all sitting properly - obviously that little girl was not. Seats in a bus are designed for protecting children - when they sit in them properly. If the children have to get out of the bus quickly, don't you think the seat belts would hinder a safe evacuation? How many belts would be used as weapons? Is it the driver's responsibility to make sure everyone is buckled up? People are complaining that the bus ride is long now, just think if the driver had to check on every student to make sure they were buckled up - they'd be getting home after supper. Just something to think about. The kids need to learn more about bus safety - and listening to the drivers when they say "would you please sit down". Many students do listen to the driver and do sit down - it's the ones that don't that are a distraction to the driver.


Here we go again Murray. Were you on the bus??? Because you seem to think you know what happened. First of all, my daughter says she was sitting. She was probably not holding on, because she is accustomed to being strapped in. She is 5 years old and weighs 32lbs, so it would be pretty easy for her to be thrown from the seat.

I am getting a little tired of you unconditionally defending the bus drivers and blaming my daughter for this incident. The bus drivers are probably good people trying to do their jobs, but they are not infallible. The bus has pulled away from my house on more than one occasion before my daughter was in her seat. And don't even get me started on the drop off system, they don't even check to make sure there is someone there to meet the kindergarteners when they get off the bus.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby Murray on Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:31 am

No, I wasn't on the bus - but I have friends who are bus drivers. I was just trying to point out that if kids sit properly, they can have a safe ride even without seat belts. Re: the drop-off policy - if a kindergarten student is dropped off on a general route bus, as long as there is a sibling or a older student that gets off with them, the driver will let them off. If they are dropped off when it is kindergarten students only, the driver has to see an adult before the child is let off.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby kakd on Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:09 am

Well, if the kids had seatbelts on, they would have no choice but to sit properly.

I pick my daughter up from school. I will be taking up the issue of Kindergarten drop-offs with the transportation department and the school.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby mommyof3 on Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:37 am

I pick my daughter up from school. I will be taking up the issue of Kindergarten drop-offs with the transportation department and the school.[/B][/QUOTE]


BEST OF LUCK to you! I hope you are able to speak with someone and get some results....
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby Murray on Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:40 am

If you pick up your child from school, how do you know so much about drop-off procedures? I've never had any problems - once I wasn't home on time and the driver took my child back to school and didn't abandon him as you think they would do. By the way, someone looked up some stats about bus safety and posted them under another topic on this web site. Look it up.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby kakd on Wed Sep 18, 2002 12:25 am

My daughter took the bus home for about a week, then I started picking her up. As for the abandonment, maybe I got that idea from the incident last year when the 5 and 7 year olds were left off at the wrong place, 20 minutes early with no adult in sight.

Statistics are great, but they only mean something if all incidents are reported and recorded. We already know that isn't the case.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby Murray on Wed Sep 18, 2002 12:32 am

It's clear that we have different opinions, and that's great. That's what this site is for - expressing them. I respect your opinions and I hope you respect mine. Thank you.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby concernedcitizen on Thu Sep 19, 2002 10:21 am

Kakd You should continue to pick up your daughter from school. If you are that disatisfied with the bus system at school then don't use it. riding the bus is a privilege not a right.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby kakd on Thu Sep 19, 2002 10:38 am

Thank you for your suggestion. I will continue to pick her up. I will also continue to try and get the system improved so that the people who need to use the buses will get a safer system.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby soccermom on Thu Sep 19, 2002 9:42 pm

I just have to say that today my daughter who is 8 and has been taking the bus since she was 5 told me that she banged her face on the seat in front of her and hit her head on the seat in back of her. She told me the bus driver stopped short and believe me she was sitting down properly, she knows better. We have a new bus driver this year and I have to say that I am somewhat unhappy with this person. This person tends to drive too fast for a school bus. I had wanted to give this new driver some time seeing that she is new, but I think I am going to have to speak to someone about this. In regards to seat belts, it is kind of hard to get all of the facts seeing that the news only makes a big deal of an accident if the person was not wearing a seat belt. Take for instance Simmons who plays for the GreenBay Packers who died because of his seat belt. This was in the newspaper, but since it is not what people want to hear a big was not made about it. Don't get me wrong, my children always wear their seatbelts, I just choose not to do so. I don't know about any of you, but when I was young I never wore one and nothing ever happened to us, it's just that a big deal was never made of it.
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Changed Bus Stops???

Postby concernedcitizen on Thu Sep 19, 2002 10:36 pm

All i can say is good luck getting seatbelts...are u gonna personaly pay for them? There are more important things in the town buget, mainly the wynn middle school reopening. There is no way the town will go for seatbelts.
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